I have to admit, I have a “tiny bit” of the long-range shooting bug that’s been biting me over the past year or so …
I guess it’s because I haven’t done enough of it yet!
Unfortunately, I’m not blessed right now with a range that goes beyond 100yds that I can use — so truth be told — I’ve not shot any of my AR-15’s at anything more than 100yds.
Even so, a lot of “experts” will say that the AR-15 chambered in the standard 5.56/.223 is a 200yd or less gun. Is that true?
How Far Can You Shoot A Basic AR-15?
As Shawn at LooseRounds.com writes:
“For a while now there has been a lot of talk about how ineffective the 5.56 service round is. It’s all over the internet gun boards and the popular slick newsstand gun magazines. Time and time again we are all told how the 5.56 is a 200-yard gun, or if you’re using a carbine, you’re stuck with a 50-yard gun. Everyone knows this, it’s just plain common sense! The problem is, it’s not really true. A whole lot of people sound off about something they really don’t know much about and have zero experience with. This amused me for a few years, then as more and more time passed it really started to bug me to the point of aggravation. A certain type will always repeat the same inaccurate info and we all know that. The problem is that it causes those in military service to lose confidence in their service weapon and what it can do. Confidence in your tools is an important thing, if you believe in and know for a fact what your rifle can do, you shoot it better.
Most serious followers of the AR15 platform know about the MK12 rifles and have read stories about 500 to 800-yard kills and how effective it has been in the GWOT. A few are at least vaguely familiar with High Power service rifle matches. But they assume any AR15 type rifle that can be used for these ranges is by necessity some super customized and specialized weapon. Obviously there is truth in that. To shoot a winning score at Camp Perry you have to have some specialized rifle work done and use special ammo. When these accomplishments are brought up in discussion, they are shot down by the people who “know better” because they are not the same guns issued out to troops or normal civilian users for self protection. And so it goes on and on, that the AR15 is a 200-yard gun.
It is not. It will do more than most believe, and it will do it with military-issue ammo.”
1,000 Yard Shots With A Stock AR-15, With Military Ball Ammo (M855) With Iron Sights?
Most impressive to me is that Shawn was able to do this with military ball ammo (M855) after he did it with the heavier, MK262 (77gr OTM) designed for long distance.
Heck, I’m impressed that he could even see 1,000 yards!
Even though we’re only talking about being able to make these hits, I’m sure someone will point out that the 5.56 is ineffective at stopping a threat at really far ranges.
To that, I think Shawn has a great point, “The terminal effects of the round at these ranges is another matter and gives people an excuse to not practice. The thing is, a hit is a hit. Kills at 800 yards have been made with the MK12, so that should tell you something. Even if it takes 3 hits to put some one down at 900 yards with your 5.56 carbine, they are still down at 900 yards. I would gladly use up three rounds than have to deal with a bad guy at 50 yards. Ten rounds needed to stopping a target 900 yards away is worth more then 100 rounds when the bad guy is with 50 as far as I am concerned. Work with your weapon, learn it and don’t let the gun rag writers and forum experts make you lose confidence in your tool. The AR15 and the 5.56 work. Don’t listen to the fluff used to sell new platforms/calibers.”
And that makes a LOT of sense don’t you think?
You can read about his first shots at 1,000yds using the standard 20″ barrel AR-15 (basically a clone of the M16A2) here.
Later, he did the same thing with an M4A1 upper which means the barrel length is only 14.5 inches long. Incredibly, he outperformed the longer-barreled 20″ rifle with the M4! He also shot a target a 800yds with a 16″ barreled rifle equipped with an aimpoint red dot optic because that’s what many people use. Click here to read that.
Clearly, if you’re skilled enough, the AR-15 can be shot out to 1000 yards with some degree of accuracy!
800yards With a Scoped 16″ AR-15 All Day Long
Here’s a great video of some guys nailing an 800yd target with hit after hit.
I think this is a more common setup for most people, the 16″ barrel and the magnified optic (though more people might be running red dots than magnified optics).
From the video description, “Rifle is a built 16″ middy “Recon” with a Lothar-Walther LW50 barrel (223 Wylde 1:8) topped with Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32FFP MRAD scope. Target is a 12″ rifle grade Stake Target from Challenge targets sitting right at 800 yards (731.52 m). Shooting CBC 77gr OTM 5.56mm ammo. A lot of people would be surprised and even doubt what a good 16″ AR will do with good ammo. 800 yards is not beyond the capabilities of this rifle. Target size is just under 1.5MOA at this range. Considering the large number of hits we had and the consistency even after 3 different shooters and 80+ rounds… I’m calling this a good shootin’ setup.”
How Far Have YOU Shot Your AR-15?
Seeing all these long-range shots really makes me want to go out and see how I perform at ranges farther than 100 yards!
How about you?
What’s the furthest you’ve shot an AR-15?
What type of AR-15 did you use? What type of ammo? Share your results in the comments!
I have a 10 inch target set at 400 yds. I have trouble seeing that far without a scope. Well enough to shoot anyway. I have a Core brand with 10″ barrel. Some of the ammo comes apart at that range but I wouldn’t want to be hit with it at twice that range. They leave a pretty good mark on the steel plate at 400. I was impressed with it’s accuracy at that range with out the box ammo. I enjoy the gun. Has an impressive warranty, and I enjoy shooting it. Good Article. Add some barrel length and better grade ammo and I believe it would impress at 100 or farther. Have to get me some better eyes though and practice. Been shooting for 62 years and still love it!
That’s great! A 10″ barrel and making hits at 400 yards huh? Very impressive. And I hear you the benefits of a good scope are worth it I think.
Read the article. Sure, under absolutely perfect conditions, you can hit a target at long range with a 5.56mm (.223 cal.) round. If you get zero’d in, and if the wind doesn’t pick up somewhere in that shots trajectory, you can actually kill something man sized that far out. Three rounds. IF HE STANDS THERE THAT LONG! IF THE WIND DOESN”T BITE YOU! Too many ifs and or buts. No. I will NOT be PLANNING on using an AR 15 for my long range work. Sure as the world won’t be wasting ammo that far with iron sites.
Now, that said. Is it a good idea in a prepping for SHTF situation to practice hitting that far with that or any other weapon? I’d have to say it depends on your terrain and situation. In a great many cases, it probably IS a good idea to prep/practice for it. If you haven’t practiced it, the odds go from bad to horrible real quick.
But physics is one of those things that WILL NOT be denied. That light bullet is going to react to wind, updrafts, downdrafts, whatever. Wind is gonna make hitting that far a beast. Weight of the bullet is also gonna reduce the effectiveness of the round. That little 22 bullet just looses so much energy that far downrange. Again, physics won’t be denied. Can shooting that far with that round be done? Sure. Should it. Just as definitely, no.
1,000yrds + 15ft. How’s that?
Oh, I forgot to tell you that it was a 7.62×54 round.
I consistantly hit the 500 yrd pop up target with the M16A1 And M16A2 using standard issue mil brass every time I qualified with them in the 90’s. We learned to shoot not burst. I was a med supply puke not a grunt! SFC USA Ret
Nice!
John, at 1000 yds. a 55 gr .223 round, fired at 3000 FPS muzzle velocity, drops and astounding 48 FEET! The 168 grain 3000 FPS .308 round drop almost exactly HALF that. Still, much more than most can allow for in their scope, but probably still in the scope field of vies at that range. 48 feet? Not likely. And we haven’t even mentioned wind, or energy. With a 2 second flight time, the wind is certainly going to be a factor in either rounds performance. These figures are from a Nosler ballistics app.
48 feet? Not possible, laws of physics and all that, I think 48 inches, or 4’8″ maybe,a typo, idk, but I do know 48 feet isn’t correct
48 feet is 12 meters, If you were zeroed at 100 yards your come up would be that and some, obviously the bullet doesnt go up 48feet and then come back down but his calculation is in the ballpark for adjustment needed. 223 is a great little round, there are great options like 69grain stmk and it still hits hard at 400 or 500 yards. The artice is stating that it is a lot more than a 200yard cartridge and I agree completely, 800 and 1000yd hits are an extreme example but there is a whole lot of space between 200 and 1k.
48 feet is 14.63 meters. Divide 48 by 3.28. The reverse if you wish to convert meters in feet. For example 12 meters x 3.28=39.36 feet.
As for the drop at 1000 yards. With the fastest rounds 75 grains at 2930 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. zero at 250 yards, altitude 1500 feet. Ballistic coefficient 0.395 (Hornady Superformance load, not a reload), the drop is 334.64 inches or 32 MOA. Or 27.89 feet which translates into 8.50 meters. This is a fast load you can buy off the shelf. The bullet is a Hornady HPBT Match.
A somewhat better load would be 75 grains ELD Match, ballistic coefficient 0.43 at the same speed. Drop in inches is 309.39 or 29.5 MOA. In feet the drop is 25.78, in meters the drop is 7.86 meters. To convert inches into feet, just divide the inches of drop by 12. (12 inches to a foot).
I shot the first load today, ordinarily I would reload but I’ve had such good luck with Hornady’s Superformance in a 300 Win.Mag achieving the exact speeds they specify on their box that I tried their 5.56 loads with the 75 grains HPBT Match. Only to six hundred yards. It is an exceptionally accurate load and I trust their printed speed. I didn’t verify it with a chronograph yet but from past experience and with the barrel length they used (24 inches) I am quite certain that the speed they advertise is correct.
forgot to mention that the barrel has a 1/8 twist. You can also use heavier 80 grains bullets with a slightly superior B.C. 0.457.
Hornady recommends a 1 in 8 twist barrel “or better”. 1 in 7 would be better to stabilize this bullet but the advantage of the 1 in 8 is that you can shoot much lighter projectiles accurately as well. The 1 in 7 is more specialized.
With an Army issued M16A2 and M855 ball ammo, I hit a plastic “E type” silhouette at 800 yards. Its was at a “known distance” (KD) range in the Sinai. I had my own personal Colt 3x scope mounted to the carrying handle. I have to admit, it took three shots to get my first hit. I also have been involved in a little competition we used to have between units where we had to run 2.5 miles in full gear. I can’t remember the time limit but, i think it was 25 minutes. The finish line was at the 400 yard line on the KD range. We had to immediately engage targets in the prone unsupported position for one minute, move to the 300 and engage targets in the sitting position, then 200 in the kneeling and, finally 100 standing. We were on six man teams and there were eight targets so, the first and sixth guys, “swing men”, took the two targets on each end. Our team went all the way to Division before we lost. Fun times.
That sounds awesome!
I fired expert in 1975 at Camp Pendleton, California. The rifle range is backed by I5 then the good old Pacific Ocean. Our shooting ranges were 100 yards standing, 200 yards sitting cross legged and finally 500 yards prone. Needless to say there is always a breeze blowing off the coast and many shots in the black were required to fire expert. All this was with stock military M16’s with adjustable metal sights (no scopes) and USMC issue ammo, no specialized equipment. My brother, also there, also fired expert (2 points lower than me), all in my platoon had to qualify at least sharp shooter or better before leaving the range or they did not graduate so don’t tell me it cant be done.
Every marine a rifleman right!?
In my experience, the 500 yard stage of fire is where most Marines score the highest number of available points. I wonder if you recall correctly. All the USMC rifle qualifications I have qualified on, whether yards or meters, have 200, 300 and 500 yards or meter stages of fire.
During my time in the Marines we shot the 20 “barrel M-16 A2 we shot the standing profile target at 500 yards with flip up iron sights – no scope – and I hit kill zones 8 out of 10
Nice!
As a retired career U.S. Marine I know that 1000 yard shots with the M16A2 were common using standard .556. It’s been done with the A-4. Having nice rifles and ammunition is great but for the most part we all shoot off the shelf. With that said, that’s what the military uses “off the shelf”. Other than select fire there is little difference in the military and civilian versions of these weapons. These weapons are not particularly powerful as some anti-gun people like to harp about. So what’s the deal. Two things: first is eye sight. The long ranges require 20/20 or better. Marine Rifle Qualification are at ranges between two hundred and five hundred yards with iron sights. The Marines who consistently hit at ranges greater than 500 yards had 20/20 or better or were corrected to that state. Iron sights require good sight. Second is that you must be a superb marksman. That means you must have the marksmanship education that you apply consistently regardless of the distance you are firing. That’s the short version of this topic. The long version is the details of the marksmanship education. A last note; a hit with .556/.223 at a 1000 yards is always better than a hit at 50. Good luck to you all.
thanks for chiming in!
I have had no problem making 1st shot hits on 14″X20″ steel plate at 600 yds using a 3-9X scope and 55gr ball ammo,16″ carbine barrel. I just built a dedicated long range upper :20″ fluted heavy barrel,1X8 twist. The bullet is the new 77gr Sierra TMKBT. @2700MV this bullet should still be going 1272fps with 272FTLBS and need 34.7 minutes elevation according to the Hornady ballistics calculator. Initial scope is a Redfield “Battlezone” off another upper until I can get a better scope for the purpose.This is just a fun build that will be a lot less expensive to play with than my 7WSM. ( the plates just happened to be the size a friend of mine has and set up ergo the weird size.)
This is a follwup on my previous comment. I worked up a load with the tt77gr Sierra TMK. Actual velocity is 2629fps and it shoots sub MOA in the new upper. It is still super sonic at 1000yds;now I just need to get together wih one of my friends to spot for me and give this a try.
The M16 is a very accurate rifle not a gun we always practiced at 300 meters with just iorn sites and 223 ball ammo at body shaped targets half body ! It always droped them targets for me perfictly ! Then our rifles fired full auto but we only fired single shot and Never had a hang fire eather way it was fired and accurate for me in any fireing position !! Still love the AR style rifles even with iorn sights !!
This person is correct if you by the fact that your military has chosen to burden you with an air rifle like weapon.. With the M14, Springfield 03 or M1 Garand, If you hit that bastard in the correct place they will stay down at 1000 plus yards. I am almost 80 years old and spent two tours in Nam. I have never understood why they armed us with the M16 BB Gun. Did not like it then and do not like it now. I have two of them and do like them for local small range killing and defense. Do not care what you say for anything of distance more power is required. This is so I do not have to use three or more rounds.
My AR has a 16 inch barrel with a 9 inch twist. It is a piston operated gun. The upper was put together by a man that is part owner, I think, of the gun store where I bought it. The lower is a Stag Arms with a competition trigger, which is good but not great. I can shoot it with a medium power scope and my ammo at 100 yds. and get groups as small as .03 inches, and I can hit rocks that are about the size of a grapefruit at 200 yds. without problem. I haven’t been able to shoot it further than that because I don’t have access to ranges longer than that. It is my opinion that shooting at long ranges with iron sights is as much dependent on how well you can see as it is on your technique. I would really like to do this sometime with my M1 and with other rifles but as yet I haven’t had the chance.
yup even trying to be as precise as you mentioned at 100yds is hard with iron sights because it’s just hard to see that small
Even the old Russian M91/30 or Swiss Model 1911 or 1931 can easily hit targets every time at 500 yards with open sights. It should be every patriotic American’s duty to purchase surplus arms through the use of an easily obtainable Curio and Relics License ($30.00 for three years; no gov’t home inspection). This license will save you $30.00 on your first purchase, and the forms can be obtained on your computer!
When I was in the US Marines we had just changed from the M14 to the M16. Training civilians to be warriors was easier with less wait (plastic M16). They also told us if we had to fight hand-to-hand with a bayonet on the barrel that would probably bend the barrel. You do not see the bayonet attachment on the M15. So they trained us to shoot to kill at 200, 300 and 500 yards. I shot expert and won my Sargent a 6 pack on my first range day. A few went on to sniper training. 500 yards? Yes. But agree with the other Marine, I like the M14 more for all the reasons. An M10 with .308 is a good blend.
Finally got to try the rifle with the 77gr TMK @1000 yds (actually 1006yds. according to my range finding binoculars). No problem hitting although it took four shots to get the elevation and the wind right. (37MOA elevation and 4moa wind.) Misses were easy to see because the 77gr bullets kick up much more dust on the rock bluff our target is hanging from than the 55gr bullets I saw previously tried. The 55gr bullets were very hard to see. The energy on these 77 gr TMK’s is approximately 269fpe@ a chart velocity of 1255fps. Obviously not massive power but it would still not be good to get hit with one of these.
I am not an expert these days but did qualify in AF/SPECS expert in ’78. These days I have opted for a Savage .243 with 100 gr ball ammo. I do not have the long range needed to try my hand at more than 450yds. I shoot a 12″ splatter target, so I can see my hits thru my scope. That range is all I feel I will ever need considering the places I believe I may be in if the SHTF. I do have a DPMS LR10(308) that I have zeroed at 300 yds and have consistently hit target at 450+ using 165gr ball ammo. Not a pro by any means but do like to see the target splatter with each shot! I enjoy shooting deer at these ranges as I am unable to get into a elevated position for closer shots. I congratulate all who have tried their hand at long ranges! To everyone who has not ever tried it, you are selling you weapon short as well as your potential safety. Molon Labe
I qualified expert in ’78 with AF/SPECS training using the 5.56. I no longer am able to see those distances without scope. I now use a Savage Bolt in .243m with 100 gr ball out to my only available long distance of 450yds. I shoot splatter 12″ targets so I can see hits with scope. This is my deer rifle in Mo. For larger game I have used my DpMS LR10 in 308. Using 165gr I am able to zero at 300 and hit 450+ without much problem. I have not had opportunity for much greater than 500 with it. It and my .243 are all I feel I should ever need in any SHTF scenario. For those of you who are able to shoot those shots greater than 500, I salute you. If you have never attempted long range, you are selling your weapon short, as well as yourself! Congrats to all who have attempted and continue to practice it. MOLON LABE
I cannot really speak for what has gone on since 1974 with the M-16 platform. I own an M-4 that I’m happy with, but I do not use it for anything other than plinking. HOWEVER, during US Army Basic Training in 1974 I scored 200 out of 200 with a plain Jane, standard issue M-16 with iron sights, 180 of those shots taken between 100 and 300 Yards (Meters? Might have been – it’s been a while…).
As I recall, we were given a few extra Rounds to use in case of a miss. I used these Rounds to assist my Squad Members who might missed their targets. None of my Rounds missed then either.
Point being – this is an awesome Weapon System, and though I have and do own “superior” ones, anyone who thinks long range hits are the exception with the venerable M-16 Platform has never spent the time to get to know it.
Steve
I have two ar 15’s. I Ruger 556, 16″ barrel with a Nixon 3 X 9 X 50 bdc rings scope and an Olympic Arms with a 16″ match H BAR bull barrel, same scope. My best friend has a Bushmaster with the same scope but 40. When we go to the range to practice for 3 gun we always wind up on the long range, 500 yrds, that has 1 body size steel target and numerous 6,8,10 and 12″ round or diamond shaped targets that we hit pretty consistently. At least 3 out of 5 rounds. He bought his first from my brother in law and a few months later I bought my first ar, a CDNN with A 20″ H BAR match bull barrel with the Nixon 3 X 9 X 50 scope. My friend, who I’ve known fo 48 years, went on line and got the ballistics chart for several brands of 223/556 and we dialed in our rifles with the cross hairs at 100 yards and using the charts found out what yardage was for the top, middle and bottom of the rings. One of my nephews has built several AR’s from parts with different scopes and do the same thing. As I read in the article I would rather use 3 to 5 rounds at 500 yards than 10 or more at 100 or less. You just have to know your weapon and practice with it. Granted the 223/556 drops considerably at that distance, 36″ or so, but it’s still an effective round. I did have a slight advantage over my friend and nephew as I had to qualify at 500 yards in basic training in 1973 with iron sights and had the 3rd best score in our squad and company. None of these rifles are expensive top of the line guns it’s all about how you train and practice. We usually go out the weekend before 3 gun and practice and we have amazed a few of the local long gun competitors with our abilities with the ar’s.
That’s awesome!
I am shooting my 6.5 Grendel out to 1,000 yard. Vortex glass. VOLTOR bipod . I just picked up some 77 grain 5.56 for another AR I have. I will see if can make hits at 1,000 next weekend.
Me and my buddy were just shooting out to 800yards earlier today with consistency and ease at a fairly fast rate of fire (for the distance anyhow) we actually started shooting at this distance because we shoot from 300-500yards normally and had genuinely become bored with how easy it was. We both have simple but very useful setups. We both run a decent 3-9x optic with canted back up irons on 16in barreled AR’s. Granted I have a damn thick, heavy, free floated barrel and a very nice 2 stage trigger, but his is just a run of the mill “standard issue” style rifle. We even got so bored of the 800 yard shooting that we started taking standing free hand shots and we’re making hits at least half the time, and all of this with 55grain XM193 surplus ammo. Long story short, the AR15 is more than capable, and if your half decent at shooting long range shots aren’t hard.
That’s pretty cool! Especially free hand and with surplus M193 55gr stuff too!
The army has a 5 week school conducted at the sniper school house at Ft. Benning called Master Marksman Trainer Course or (MMTC) I graduated from the course last year. One of the shooting tests is shooting standard e-type sillouets at unknown distances out too 800 meters. This is done with a rack grade M4 and standard M855 ball ammo. You first shoot a course of fire with an ACOG then the same course with iron sights. Anyone who says the conditions all must be perfect for you to make the shot doesn’t have a clue. 28 out of 30 soldiers hit the 800 with no problem and we will all attest to the storm front that was coming in that day. We all made the shots with a 12-16mph full value wind gusts. With that being said, it’s not about the weapon or ammo, it’s about your ability to practice. I will admit that we trained for 5 weeks with tons of ammo and range time to be able to make those shots. I don’t expect that anyone can just pick up a rifle and go do it. I also think that now that I’m 9 months out from that school it would take me some time to get my skills back to do it again.
That’s awesome Hoss thanks for sharing!
800 meters with rack grade M4 is no joke! 28 out of 30 is impressive
I have qualified expert on the Known Distance Course for the Marine Corps at 200, 300, and 500 meters with standard 5.56 ball ammunition with the carrying handle Iron Sights,4x Trijicon ACOG, and the new Knights Armament BUIS. We routinely shot reactive pop up silhouettes at ranges the BDC had around 650-700 meters. Wind no wind, it didn’t matter. The ACOG stadia lines and BDC put 5.56 where it belonged and in most cases on the first round. Also first round kills for a rifleman are not necessarily better. A wounded soldier will require, in most cases, 2-3 of his buddies to carry him and provide security for his evacuation. Hits are hits. Bullets are cheap, life is not. Crush em at ranges they don’t expect! Attrite them before they close with you, or you them. Semper fidelis.
Excellent input sir. Thank you!
1000 yards with a 77g Sierra hpbt homeload. 18 inch barrelled ar15 with 4-16 scope. 10 inch steel target.Day not great either. Had to be bloody quick with second and third rounds to repeat initial hit.
Ex sas sniping Instructor looking over my shoulder and spotting. Wants me to try further next time.
Just in case anyone is still following this I have shot a few NRA high power matches myself with an out of the box Bushmaster A2 style ar15. (Bought in 2003 1:9 twist) I used hand loaded 77 gr match bullets and weighed each charge. At 300 yards I can hit the 8,9 and occasionally the 10 ring. At 200 yards in the aprox 5 matches I shot I shot 1 X and a few 10 rings. While taking my turn in the pits scoring I have personally seen .223/5.56 rounds go through the same hole at both 200 and 300 yards. But these guys were using full out match grade rifles. I was just trying to have some fun and improve my marksmanship, I have a public range that is 200 yards that I practice at. When I bench rest I can do a little better, I do this to determine the consistency of my match hand loads.
Not only did I hit human sized targets in the military with a standard M16A2 with standard ammo at 1000 yards all day long… I did the same thing with a standard AR-15 in NRA sanctioned competitions all day long at 1000 yards… To be honest… if you have a problem doing that… you are just a shitty marksman.
I need a 1,000yd range! Thanks for chiming in Joe
I used to shoot 5.56, running bore and other matches for the U.S. Army and before that I shot the M-14 in National Match. Unfortunately I cannot remember the maximum range I shot the 5.56, I was wounded in the head and that caused memory problems.
The furthest I shot a ground hog with a .223 Remington bolt was 700 yards. It was many years ago and I was probably sitting on a rail road track; I did not make a habit of shooting ground hog at that distance awful hand. It was on an old railroad track with very large rocks for the bed. I know I was not prone, I had nothing to put beneath me to soften the rocks, still I would have had to contend with the rail road tracks and I had no bi-pod.
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